Hacking into Zoe's CANbus

[jmeijer]

If you don’t like to loose that little shelf space covering the SAE J1962 connector, you might like this http://canze.fisch.lu/reposition-the-dongle/

[MB72]

Hi,

thanks alot for your great project! I used it over 700km this weekend and it worked like a charm.
But there is one this I am curious about: I have a R240 and the Charging screen looked like this at different charging units

- Avaialble charging power kw: 20.1
- Max battery charge/regen kW: 40.0
- DC Power kw: 19.4

I thought that the new version of the ZOE isn't able to charge with more than 22kW. Or is it due to the fact that the regeneration can be up to 43kW? Then a screen like this would be possible?:

- Avaialble charging power kw: 40.0
- Max battery charge/regen kW: 40.0
- DC Power kw: 19.4

(Or do i have a new untested version of R240 with a 43kw charging possibility? )

Thanks and regards

Maik

[jmeijer]

I think you have swapped the first two lines? If not, I would like to see a screen print please.

Assuming that indeed the values ARE swapped:

The charger (read: the "pole") is capable of 43 kW. It isn't interested that your car can "only" take 20, But the car indicates that at this moment it can take 20.1. What the car will actually take is the minimum of both values, but at least you can see if it is the car that is limiting the charger (it is for you now), or the charger.

[tango]

Ich fahre nun seit ein paar Tagen immer wieder mit der APP und es macht ziemlich Spaß, die Werte zu verfolgen! Mir ist aufgefallen, dass die Geschwindigkeit bei mir in der Regel um ca. 4% niedriger im CANze angegeben wird, als auf dem Tacho. Ist das beabsichtigt und normal, oder kann ich da was einstellen?

[MB72]

I think you have swapped the first two lines? If not, I would like to see a screen print please.

Assuming that indeed the values ARE swapped:

The charger (read: the "pole") is capable of 43 kW. It isn't interested that your car can "only" take 20, But the car indicates that at this moment it can take 20.1. What the car will actually take is the minimum of both values, but at least you can see if it is the car that is limiting the charger (it is for you now), or the charger.

First I thought that I misunderstood the information (too), but my understanding is just as you explained
I haven't swapped the first lines. I attached a screen print. In this screen print the Max battery charge/regen kW is "only" 25.2 as the battery is about 75% charged. It started with 40.1 and went down to 25.2 during charging. The Avaiable charging power stayed at 20.1 (clear since the chrging unit was the same all the time) and the DC power was between 19.1 and 20.0 during charging.

Regards

Maik

[jmeijer]

@Tango: the speed in CanZE is the REAL speed. By law, a car should include some margin. Renault choose 4% @ 100km/h. I heard Tesla choose 1 km/h

@Maik: Oh that is interesting. It indicates you are charging at a 22 kW charger, and that the battery could take 25. This screen shot is not very conclusive in itself. Without any explanation, I would have said: Your car can take 25 at this moment, but the charger won't allow you, so it is 20. What you are telling me though is that for an R240, the LBC still reports up to 40 kW, but the charger (BCB) refuses to go that far. It would be interesting to have a screen shot when charging at a 43 kW charger indeed, because if this is all correct, I would expect to see:
Available: 40
Max charge: 40
DC: 20
Aaaaargh!!!!! Another capping mechanism!!

Edit: another possibility is that even at a 43 kW charger, the "available" field will still stubbornly report 202. While it would be a lie, it would make more sense from a technical point of view.

[MB72]

@Tango: the speed in CanZE is the REAL speed. By law, a car should include some margin. Renault choose 4% @ 100km/h. I heard Tesla choose 1 km/h

@Maik: Oh that is interesting. It indicates you are charging at a 22 kW charger, and that the battery could take 25. This screen shot is not very conclusive in itself. Without any explanation, I would have said: Your car can take 25 at this moment, but the charger won't allow you, so it is 20. What you are telling me though is that for an R240, the LBC still reports up to 40 kW, but the charger (BCB) refuses to go that far. It would be interesting to have a screen shot when charging at a 43 kW charger indeed, because if this is all correct, I would expect to see:
Available: 40
Max charge: 40
DC: 20
Aaaaargh!!!!! Another capping mechanism!!

Edit: another possibility is that even at a 43 kW charger, the "available" field will still stubbornly report 202. While it would be a lie, it would make more sense from a technical point of view.

What I can do is to send a screenshot when the car seems to be able to take 43kw at a 22kw charger (I just to drive around in order to get an empty battery ). A charger with 43kw is difficult as I have no charger in the near. But I will try.

However, the R240 is meant to take only a maximum of 22kw on a charger (this is different to the R210 ones, which take up to 43kw). And that is the real strange point.

Regards

Maik

[tango]

Es wird immer wieder berichtet, dass der R240 technisch mit 43 kW AC geladen werden kann, dass das aber von Renault derzeit auf Grund von Unsicherheiten mit dem neuen Motor (und Chamäleon) auf 22 kW begrenzt sei. Es gibt diverse Hoffnungen, dass diese Grenze (vielleicht auch für bereits ausgelieferte Fahrzeuge) wieder aufgehoben wird. Man ist sich nur unsicher, in welchem Jahrzehnt (oder Jahrhundert) das stattfinden könnte

Anfangs hieß es ja auch, dass eine 43 kW-Ladung beim Q210 einen Extrazuschlag bei der Batteriemiete kosten würde, was Renault dann aber bald wieder fallen gelassen hat.

[jmeijer]

@Maik: Yes, that is clear. It will not take more than 22. I am just curious how Renault implemented that. We both "assumed" it would be the max charge field, but it surely isn't. So either it is forces in the Available, or the DC will simply be capped.

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to do it via "Available", this indeed would allow a maximum regeneration. 22 kW regenerative braking is an absolute joke at higher speeds.

@Tango: Correct, though charging these cells @ 2C is not very abusive, so I never understood the "43 kW tax" to begin with. I wouldn't hold my breath about the 240 charging 43 kW. The problem is likely in the use of the motor coils while charging for the 3 phase switched power supply. A reasonable assumption is they cannot push the new motor to do that.

[Stefan_M]

Bin neu hier in der Diskussion. spannend zweisprachig. Ich versuch´s erst mal deutsch.

- KW902
- CanZE @ Samsung Galaxy S3
- Zoe R240 von 06/2015

App erfolgreich mit dem KW902 verbunden, Buetooth leuchtet, App zeigt "connected"

Problem: Ich hab keine Daten... nur "0" oder "NaN"

Wo liegt meine Fehler?
Läuft die App mit dem R240?