225 kW limit on alpitronic ?

[lucistnik]

Has anyone seen more than 225 kW on alpitronic Hypercharger with EV6? If so, can I see CarScanner CSV#2 export of such session?

I have seen ~243 kW on Ionity Tritium, on EnerCharge charger, but every alpi I've been to yet self-limited to 225 kW.

[Köln Bonner]

Alpitronic Hyperchargers have 75 kW power modules; the larger Hypercharger HYC 300 can have up to four but customers can choose to install less, so 225 kW could be three power modules in total or maybe one power modules being used by someone using the other plug.

[AMI]

I have noticed the same thing. As if you never have more than three power modules available. The maximum output was always 224.x kW, even if you are standing alone at a 24 EnBW Hyperhub. At other charging stations, 240+ kW are no problem.

[Eckhard]

Deutscher Text siehe unten..

An interesting question that I have already asked in the Kia EV6 forum.
In the meantime I've done almost 200 HPC charges, mainly on HYC300 - chargers and I didn't have more than 225kW with any of them.

Only with IONITY did I see a peak of 243kW.

Despite the fact that the maximum charging capacity was not used, charging strokes of 10-80% in 18 minutes were regularly possible, even in winter.

The temperature development during the charging process and its effect on the charging curve is more decisive than the peak charging power.

The coldest cell must have reached 25 degrees at the start and 35 degrees by the end of the peak charging power, which drops in a range of 45-60% SOC from e.g. 225kW to around 180kW. Only then does the charging curve fall relatively flat after the peak charging power, to the 180kW mentioned. Otherwise, when the temperature is below 35 degrees or in the warmest already above 50 degrees, it drops to 30kW and stays there for a few minutes.

Overheated cells are worse than cells that are too cold. If the cells are below 35 degrees, the charging power drops to 130kW instead of 180kW until the 35 degrees are reached and then it increases again.

This means that even if only 3 modules of 75kW each are activated on the HYC300 for the vehicle that is charging alone, the 18 minutes can be achieved.

Because even in the ideal case, if the car drives to the HYC300 charger with 26-29 degrees warm cells without preconditioning, the battery overheats at 79.5% by exceeding the 51 degrees in the warmest cell and just achieves this with the drop in charging capacity nor the 18 minutes to 80%.

If the car had driven to the IONITY charger under these initial conditions and had charged from 10%-80%, it would have seen the peak charging power of 243kW, but the 18 minutes might not have been achieved because the battery then already at 70% SOC would have overheated and the charging power would have had to be throttled.
However, charging at IONITY is a guess on my part, so far I have mostly charged at HYC300 because they are cheaper for me than IONITY.
I hope the information helps?
Best regards

Dirk

Eine interessante Frage, die ich auch schon im Kia EV6 Forum gestellt habe.

Mittlerweile habe ich fast 200 HPC-Ladungen, hauptsächlich an HYC300 - Ladern gemacht und bei keiner einzigen hatte ich über 225kW.

Lediglich bei IONITY habe ich in der Spitze mal 243kW gesehen.

Trotz der fehlenden Ausnutzung der maximalen Ladeleistung waren regelmäßig Ladehübe von 10-80% in 18 Minuten möglich, selbst im Winter.

Entscheidender als die Spitzenladeleistung ist die Temperaturentwicklung während des Ladevorganges und ihre Auswirkung auf die Ladekurve.

Die kälteste Zelle muss 25 Grad beim Start und bis zum Ende der Spitzenladeleistung, die in einem Bereich von 45-60% SOC von z.B. 225kW auf rund 180kW abfällt, 35 Grad erreicht haben. Nur dann fällt die Ladekurve nach der Spitzenladeleistung relativ flach, auf die genannten 180kW ab. Ansonsten, wenn die Temperatur unter 35 Grad ist oder im der wärmsten schon über 50 Grad, fällt sie auf bis 30kW ab und verweilt einige Minuten dort.

Schlimmer als zu kalte Zellen sind überhitzte, bei unter 35 Grad kalten Zellen fällt die Ladeleistung anstatt auf 180kW auf 130kW bis die 35 Grad erreicht sind und dann steigt sie wieder.
D.h. auch wenn an den HYC300 offensichtlich nur 3 Module a 75kW für das allein ladende Fahrzeug freigeschaltet werden, können die 18 Minuten erreicht werden.

Denn selbst im Idealfall, wenn das Auto mit 26-29 Grad warmen Zellen ohne Vorkonditionierung an die HYC300-Säule fährt, überhitzt die Batterie bei 79,5% durch das Überschreiten der 51 Grad in der wärmsten Zelle und erreicht mit dem Abfall der Ladeleistung gerade noch die 18 Minuten bis 80%.

Wäre das Auto mit diesen Ausgangsbedingungen an den IONITY-Lader gefahren und hätte dort von 10%-80% geladen hätte es zwar die Spitzenladeleistung von 243kW gesehen, die 18 Minuten wären womöglich jedoch nicht erreicht worden, weil die Batterie dann schon bei 70% SOC überhitzt worden wäre und die Ladeleistung gedrosselt hätte werden müssen.

Die Ladung bei IONITY ist allerdings eine Vermutung von mir, ich habe bisher meist an HYC300 geladen weil die günstiger für mich sind als IONITY.

Ich hoffe die Infos helfen weiter?

Viele Grüße

Dirk

[lucistnik]

Thanks!

These are two persons confirming the phenomena. Thus I can stop worrying about individual stations being mismanaged. Instead time to reframe the question as to why alpitronic stations do this?

I am not complaining, 225 is plenty in fact, but I do like things working properly and up to their face value

I am quite sure the station is assigning three stacks to the output. Yesterday I had a charging session on HYC_300 up to 98% (unexpectedly longer fast food dinner than anticipated) and I have seen the station deassign stacks, first down to two stacks at 92.5% SoC and then down to a single stack at 95.5% SoC. Second cable was not in use. See the CarScanner recording here
https://blu.oook.cz/ev6/20230805_plzen_olympia_cez_300

Also note how in precharge the station downgrades it's own peak values to match values reported by the car, current to 310A, and power limit to 243130 W, always on any HYC_300 unit. For comparison Tritium Ionity station will send 826V 310A and 256060W (826*310=256060 exact).
https://blu.oook.cz/ev6/20230804_d1_pav ... ionity_350

Does alpitronic somehow calculates the car maximums as 310A 784,29V (= 243130)? Where does 784,29V comes from? Is it almost exactly 95% of 826V, suspicious!

There must be a formula in the alpitronic software that counts how many stacks to assign. But what is it?

[Spüli]

The newest version from Alpitronic is rated as 400kW with 4 stacks of 100kW. You could identify these new models only by type label.

[lucistnik]

Not a single one in my country yet. Anyone in Germany already tried it with EV6?

[Eckhard]

It would be interesting to see what happens when a Lucid Air, Lotus Eletre or Porsche Taycan / Audi GT drive to the HYC_300 for charging.
Do they only get 225kW or more because they can call off up to 355kW?

[lucistnik]

Taycan does pull its usual 270 kW from HYC_300 installations, local CPO's technician confirmed this to me and also see numerous Youtube videos, for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C37-YJOuEhI time 1:09:55

[Jens.P]

Does alpitronic somehow calculates the car maximums as 310A 784,29V (= 243130)? Where does 784,29V comes from? Is it almost exactly 95% of 826V, suspicious!

The maximum ist 305/306A.