Fluence Engine remove (photos)

[jinko]

Hi all,

So like promised, because of one of our fluences has fault code level 3 isolation 1.65mOhm total lock up of car.
We started to remove the engine









So on this forum people say to. Many other people ooh change the brushes the dust can go to the stator... Well trust me this never can be done!

So conclusion today.. Engine is okay

[puxi]

Is that rust caused by water in the engine? Or is this some kind of old oil/grease for lubricating the engine?




By the way, do you mean m(illi)Ohm or M(ega)Ohm? That makes a big difference...
If milliOhm, there must be some shortcut from one of the three phases to the isolation.

mfg, puxi

[jinko]

Mega Ohm,

Normal should be 1,, we have 1.68

This is water, the brown you see is rust.. Because the lamellen is from steel.

Because the engine has 3 air valves when you use high pressure water hose or clean the engine room you have a lot. Of problems! The water in the engine will provide the isolation fault! Also when the PEB aluminum house with crack.. Makes a lot of problems (a friend of us has this problem)

So the coil brushes dust is not true.. This never can be happen and the minimum lifespan of this is 50.000km

[puxi]

Steh ich jetzt auf dem Schlauch? Sollte ein größerer Isolationswiderstand nicht besser sein? Warum dann die Fehlermeldung? Ist der Motor zu gut isoliert? Kann doch irgendwie nicht sein. Der Isolationswiderstand gibt doch an wie gut die Wicklungen zueinander bzw. zum Gehäuse isoliert sind. Ein höherer Wert ist doch dabei sogar wünschenswert.

In my bad English:

But is a bigger Isolation Value not better for the engine? Why is there a fault? Isolation value to good for the machine? That makes no sense to me. Isolation Resistance should be how good the isolation from the three copper wires under each other and to the housing is. A bigger Value is therefore better. Why makes the Fluence a problem to that. I would understand it when the value is to low, but when it is to high?

mfg, puxi

[bm3]

The first question for me is from which connector to motor housing was this 1.68 MOhm value measured ? This motor has 3 phase connectors and a excitation winding with brushes . One should measure from every point to every point for insulation check. But it looks to me too like there can appear no insulation problems caused by dust from the brushes.

Many greetings

Klaus

[jinko]

1) the car gives error Level 3 isolation fault, on the read out of the app it says 1.65mOhm. On normal. Car it's between 0.85 - 1.00mega ohm.

2) the coils brushes never can be a problem with cars less then 50.000km so if people say replace the brushes for 180euro for a kit then they don't know what they talking about.

3) as u know the bottom of the car is covered with plastic covers, so the only thing where water can come in is from underneath the hood when you clean your car with pressure water cleaner. Because the engine air valves (3pcs) are high mounted near/around the charge unit (first electric unit u see)

4) we still research if there is coolant leakage, coming into the engine (where stator is), there are couple sensors into the engine to check many things so if there is to much water inside of course this is not good..

5) we measure the windings of the elektric motor.. Seems no problem between the phases but we want to check Monday with Renault mechanic where we need look for

6) we started search the error because no Renault warranty and Renault don't know what to check.. That's why they say replace all (also because you cannot exchange 1 part of the engine room.. PEB +charger + elektric motor are programmed together only new products can be used to program once)

[Stefan_R]

So even if the hood is closed it is possible to flood the air valves (and the engine) when using high pressure cleaners while washing the car?

[klwinkel]

5) we measure the windings of the elektric motor.. Seems no problem between the phases but we want to check Monday with Renault mechanic where we need look for

6) we started search the error because no Renault warranty and Renault don't know what to check.. That's why they say replace all (also because you cannot exchange 1 part of the engine room.. PEB +charger + elektric motor are programmed together only new products can be used to program once)

As you say: "Renault don't know what to check"... which Renault mechanic are you going to ask?
The regular mechanic from a garage don't know sh.t about this, they never disassemble the motor itself, these days they only replace parts, they don't repair them.

Isn't it judged too quickly, to say that all other isolation failures must have the same cause as this engine?

[jinko]

@Stefan,
These days some of the people are really stupid, when they want to sell the car they also clean the engine compartiment with high pressure cleaner! (which is really a no go)

@klwinkel,

I know the recent mechanics are really stupid but I got manuals from higher end mechanics from factory so that we can messure more then normal Renault mechanics,
I did not say this is the one and only problem of the engine but most issues is isolation fault in electronic components of 400V so: Electro motor or PEB or charge and control unit.

[klwinkel]

I did not say this is the one and only problem of the engine but most issues is isolation fault in electronic components of 400V so: Electro motor or PEB or charge and control unit.

I see on the images that you are from the Netherlands, where exactly? maybe we can meet someday, its interesting to see the engine disassembled...