[English] Venting: Hogging public chargers

[English] Venting: Hogging public chargers

Beitragvon mishunator » So 17. Jul 2016, 21:37

Fellow German Electric Vehicle drivers,

This is my first post on this forum and I must apologise for writing it in English. My German is not yet at a level at which I can express myself, and it is my belief that most EV drivers actually speak very good English.

I believe all of us are aware of the limitations of driving an EV when it comes to charging, with a heavy emphasis on those, like me, that don't have how to charge at home and they don't have an ICE car as a back-up. We have a very limited supply of public chargers (free or paid) and we somehow all have to share the infrastructure; I believe this is the reason why all of us are using goingelectric.de, right?

However, recently, I have been struck by the disrespect shown by many EV drivers when it comes to the charging etiquette, and although I dislike generalisations I must direct some of the anger towards Tesla drivers. My Zoe and other's Leafs (Leaves?) cannot block your superchargers and it would fantastic if you would not block any chargers at all. In the past 2 months I've been screwed by several (5-6?) Teslas that occupy for hours some 22kW AC public chargers that can only be activated hour by hour. This is extremely rude! I have not seen, yet, a Leaf, a Zoe or a BMW hogging a charger in my 6 months of EV ownership; I presume it's because those with small battery don't really stray too far from our cars maybe?

Anyhow, with all due respect, I think all of us would appreciate when using a public charger if you (not only Tesla drivers):
a) charge only when needed - if the battery is at 85% or you have enough for the journey, don't hog the charger because you need a parking place
b) use the charger only as it's minimum required - don't forget your car plugged it, others would also like to use the charger too
c) please, I insist, please put some contact details on the dashboard - an e-mail address would be just fine, as I do - so we can reach you in case your car is fully charged and we'd like to charge so we can continue our journey.

I think we can all benefit if we agree on some basic etiquette that we can somehow all of us self-enforce. I truly appreciate your attention and I promise to write future posts in German.

Grüß,
Mihai
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Re: [English] Venting: Hogging public chargers

Beitragvon LiquidCrystal » Mo 18. Jul 2016, 00:39

As some people on this forum like to say: "The only cure for too few charging points is more charging points."
Personally I find it a bit unfitting to blame drivers who use charging points as intended – it shouldn't make a difference whether you're at 80%, 60% or 5% when you arrive at a charging point, you should be allowed to plug in and go do whatever it is you're planning on doing. That being said, I agree with your last point of courteously leaving some sort of contact info behind in case you're occupying a rapid charging point with 22kW or above, especially if you're planning on staying away from your car for multiple hours.
This is actually a discussion that's been had a lot on this forum, and there are many diametrically opposed views on this, but that point seems to be what most people can agree on – leave your contact info behind, just in case. Obviously there's outlier cases where certain EVs block the same charging point for days on end, but personally, I've seen more carsharing cars than Teslas who do that.
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Re: [English] Venting: Hogging public chargers

Beitragvon mweisEl » Mo 18. Jul 2016, 08:39

mishunator hat geschrieben:
I think all of us would appreciate when using a public charger

your assumption above is wrong. Also wrong are your points:

a) no, I won't do that generally, just for fast chargers

b) as long as the EV is be charged on the charger, everything is fine. If it is a destination charger and the car is allowd to park a longer time, everything is fine also when the charging is finished, especially, but not only, during night. So: no, I won't do that.

c) no, I won't put my personal data there - if the well-placed car is being charged on the charger. I will return to the car ASAP, even later maybe if you insist on email/phone terror.
1 smart fortwo electric drive, 3 Fahrräder und seit 25 Jahren verbrennerfrei.
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Re: [English] Venting: Hogging public chargers

Beitragvon p.hase » Mo 18. Jul 2016, 09:44

find ich cool, daß ein neuling genau DAS beobachtet, was ich schon lange beobachte.

hier im grossraum stuttgart ist auf kaum noch eine säule verlass, denn es könnte ein tesla mit kennzeichen ES-S-RT-BB-LB dort stehen und den leeren akku (400km reichweite) komplett füllen.

gell, der strom ist halt doch billiger als zuhause? kostenlos ist am schönsten? und deswegen hat es der volvo autohausbesitzer aus dem nachbarthread auch genau richtig gemacht.

erstaunlicherweise bestätigen aber auch relativ wenige teslafahrer die ladung. schämt sich da jemand?

das wäre alles anders, wenn alle an die supercharger dürften...

da muss elon nachlegen. wenn die breite masse dahinter kommt gibts plattfüsse und zerkratzte teslas statt mehr elektroautos.

+1
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Re: [English] Venting: Hogging public chargers

Beitragvon mishunator » Mo 18. Jul 2016, 11:30

mweisEl hat geschrieben:
mishunator hat geschrieben:
I think all of us would appreciate when using a public charger

your assumption above is wrong. Also wrong are your points:

a) no, I won't do that generally, just for fast chargers

b) as long as the EV is be charged on the charger, everything is fine. If it is a destination charger and the car is allowd to park a longer time, everything is fine also when the charging is finished, especially, but not only, during night. So: no, I won't do that.

c) no, I won't put my personal data there - if the well-placed car is being charged on the charger. I will return to the car ASAP, even later maybe if you insist on email/phone terror.



a) and b) That's called "culture of entitlement". Just because you have a right, you don't have the right to abuse it.

c) I don't give my private email address to the service centre or insurance company for the same reason you don't put your email address on the dashboard - privacy. For all car related issues, I use a separate email address. In 6 months no one terrorized me with emails, your assumption is taken to an extreme. Only twice have I been emailed with request and, yes, it is heart warming to allow someone else in much dire need to charge and get home earlier; most people remember this and will pay back. But I guess this is also linked to the culture of entitlement.

Anyhow, I've rarely seen so much negativity and my attempt to appeal to common sense failed indeed. Shame. I'll shut up from now on.
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Re: [English] Venting: Hogging public chargers

Beitragvon AbRiNgOi » Di 19. Jul 2016, 06:18

mishunator hat geschrieben:
[...]

Anyhow, I've rarely seen so much negativity and my attempt to appeal to common sense failed indeed. Shame. I'll shut up from now on.

no, you should not shut up. You are right.
Only problem: Not every charging station is the same. There could be some destination charger, where it is OK, to park as long, as you wish. But there should be more then one plug, and a lower power on each. And it should be markt as destination charger.

The problem is, by now there are to less chargers, and now it is by us to decide if it is a destination charger or not. A charger at a shopping mall should be a destination charger, but because there are no quick charger nearby, everyone is using it as a quick charger. The people using it as a destination charger are also right, but by now every one ist useing it as a quick charger and so the one useing it as a destination charger should think about there usage.

There are to less charging stations, but what should be the priority? Fast charging on a trip or charging near by home because there is no Plug at home? Or is the priority to charge while in bussines on destiation to come home quicker afterwards?
I can not tell you,

BUT: No parking at Quickchargers in the Highway !!! And that is what we should shout out !!!
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Re: [English] Venting: Hogging public chargers

Beitragvon rollo.martins » Di 19. Jul 2016, 07:23

I usually use a charging card which indicates the approximate return time and, for cases of emergency, my phone number. This might be a way. They are available for free from The New Motion. Not in every case you have the opportunity to return to your car at the exact time when it is fully charged; you should not blame people in such cases. And the next one in the line cannot see how long your charging will go on, so the card is useful anyway.

However, as it was said before, the only solution to a lack of charging points is more charging points.

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Re: [English] Venting: Hogging public chargers

Beitragvon Zoidberg » Di 19. Jul 2016, 21:23

Guys, I am not sure if you all got Mihais's point.

mishunator hat geschrieben:
In the past 2 months I've been screwed by several (5-6?) Teslas that occupy for hours some 22kW AC public chargers that can only be activated hour by hour.


It seems there are Chargers out there, which can only be activated to charge for a certain time, in this case for an hour. That's how I understand it. I think this kind of charger is pretty uncommon in Germany, might be a Scandinavian thing.

Long story short, what Mihai noted is, that it is very rude to activate the charger for one hour and keep the car plugged in after the hour is over, so others in need cannot charge. This behavior indicates this spot is used as a parking spot, not as a charging spot like it was intended. And that cannot be approved by me, too.
However, in Germany traffic signs sometimes allow parking in front of a charger. Whether this is kind of stupid or not, well, that's another discussion...
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Re: [English] Venting: Hogging public chargers

Beitragvon mishunator » Di 19. Jul 2016, 23:29

Thanks Zoldberg! and sorry for the little information about the chargers, I didn't think it mattered that much.

There are a few older Mainova chargers around Frankfurt and Aschaffenburg that interrupt the charge after 1 hour. In winter, Zoe takes slightly more than 1 hour to reach 99% and while enjoying a coffee nearby I got an SMS from the charger (one activates the charger with the phone and then the charger sends messages to the phone number, if needed) that the charge was interrupted. Recent Mainova chargers don't to this.

In any case, I may have gotten a bit heated up, as on Sunday was the worst event: parked next to the other car, left a note on their door then went for lunch, hoping to get an email. Came back 2,5 hours later, the note wasn't touched, charger showing "laden beended". I was rather low on range and didn't want to risk another charger, so I read in the car for another hour. That's more than 3 hours in total, on a 22kW charger, with the charging status showing "laden beendet" for quite a long time. Ended up calling a work colleague to lend a socket for a couple of hours.

I sincerely don't want to generalize that all Tesla drivers are inconsiderate! Far from it, I've met guys that have gone above and beyond just to allow me to charge. Just in the past 2 months, probably due to the local festivals, those chargers have become, as Zoldberg says, parking spaces.

Anyhow, probably I should quit my current job, find a venture capitalist and start installing chargers all over the place. That'd be fun! :ugeek: Have a lovely evening!
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Re: [English] Venting: Hogging public chargers

Beitragvon Zoidberg » Di 19. Jul 2016, 23:57

Now that sucks indeed!
Mihai, I understand your frustration. But actually that could have happened with any electric vehicle, it all depends on its owner.

I once had a similar experience. It was at a charging location with four 22 kW Type 2 and one 50 kW Triple Charger. The four 22 kW were not used. A local Tesla Model S (telling from its licence plate) was parked in front of the Triple Charger. Without beeing plugged in! Keep in mind he is only able to charge max 22 kW with Type 2 anyhow... He was just using it as a free parking spot in the city center, which by the way was legal because of the traffic signs.

Beeing in a vehicle with the two charging options 3.7 kW Type 2 or 40 kW CCS, I was pretty upset...


I like the idea of Tesla having employees at busy Superchargers in CA during vacation time organizing the charging of incoming vehicles so the stalls have highest output / efficiency. Maybe that would be another option for your next job at Mainova chargers in Frankfurt... :lol:
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